Still staggering around in the dark
After having been humiliated so badly on this issue, Osama Abdallah would have done better not to revisit this topic, but he just could not leave it alone.
Originally, Abdallah tried to convince people that Muhammad's saying about the human body containing 360 joints is proof of the divine origin of Islam, since this was unknown at the time, and only discovered and proven to be true in 1995. His original claim, propagated on his site between 3 June 2001 and 27 May 2004 is documented and discussed in this article.
For about half a year after the publication of our article, he invested much effort in counting joints. During this time he published many insults against us and claimed that he will destroy us and humiliate us by proving us wrong. However, in the end, Abdallah gave up and removed that article, and instead claimed that those narrations are weak/doubtful hadith, see this article. As time went on, he changed those pages several times, becoming ever more a rejecter of the vast majority of hadiths.
For his rejection of the hadiths he was then attacked by orthodox Muslims, and a substantial fight developed, in which the 360 joints hadiths played some role. Having been ship-wrecked so badly in his attempt of proving the 360 joints hadiths to be true scientifically, it becomes his main challenge to the orthodox Muslims, see the below given quotations. In those articles and announcements Abdallah calls the 360 joints hadith weak, doubtful, and even false, i.e. fabricated. He declares that he only believes in hadiths that are mutawatir. And he states that this is not a mutawatir hadith (mutawatir is the highest degree of authenticity and trustworthiness in the evaluation of hadiths).
However, it is lonely out there when one attacks the hadiths that are an essential foundation of Islam. Apparently, the constant opposition to his approach, even by respected Muslim leaders, was too hard on him to sustain. Therefore, he recently made a complete turn-around and has now an amazing new opinion on these hadiths. In that newest version of his article, he has the statement: "This Hadith (Saying of Prophet Muhammd) is a Mutawatir (genuine....among the very well known ones) one."
I have no problem with changing an opinion if presented with good evidence. I have done so myself on various points. The problem is that Abdallah only changes his opionion when the outside pressure on him becomes too great, not when he is presented with good new arguments. We showed him that this hadith is false, and he attacked us and insulted us for months for daring to question it. At the end, he changed his opinion and then claimed for about two years that this hadith is false. Later, he was fighting with the orthodox Muslims for months and accusing and insulting them (and they him), and now he joins them again in claiming that this hadith is mutawatir, i.e. that it has the highest degree of authenticity after all, but he disagrees with them on its meaning.
In the Islamic "science of hadith", the soundness or authenticity of a narration is determined mostly by examining its chain. It has little to do with its content. It is quite obvious that Abdallah declared this hadith to be false and fabricated for the one and only reason that he was unable to harmonize its content with modern science. He claimed that it is NOT mutawatir because he could not face the fact that its content is wrong. Now, after he thinks that he found a way to interpret it "spiritually" instead of scientifically, he suddenly claims again that it is mutawatir. However, nothing has changed in its transmission in the meantime. His acceptance or rejection of Islamic narrations are mere expediency, and have nothing to do with objective scholarship.
Since Abdallah has written about this issue in so many places, he forgot to remove or rewrite all his earlier pages on the topic when he published his new insights, resulting in the amusing fact that he is contradicting himself by currently propagating that this hadith is not mutawatir and even false (here) and that it is mutawatir (here).
Be that as it may. What is his new interpretation about, and does it have any merit? We are going to quote it here in full, since there is a high probability for it to disappear again soon, just like the earlier versions.
For nearly three years, 3 June 2001 to 27 May 2004, Abdallah's headline was:
Islam's claim about the 360 joints in the human body was proven to be true!
On 12 September 2006, Osama Abdallah published the following:
Prophet Muhammad never said that humans have 360 joints in their bodies:
The following is the Hadith in Arabic and my English translation to it:
حدثنا حسن بن علي الحلواني حدثنا أبو توبة الربيع بن نافع حدثنا معاوية يعني ابن سلام عن زيد أنه سمع أبا سلام يقول حدثني عبد الله بن فروخ أنه سمع عائشة تقول
إن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم قال إنه خلق كل إنسان من بني آدم على ستين وثلاث مائة مفصل فمن كبر الله وحمد الله وهلل الله وسبح الله واستغفر الله وعزل حجرا عن طريق الناس أو شوكة أو عظما عن طريق الناس وأمر بمعروف أو نهى عن منكر عدد تلك الستين والثلاث مائة السلامى فإنه يمشي يومئذ وقد زحزح نفسه عن النار
Hasan bin Al-Hilwani narrated to us that Abu Tawbah Al-Rabie bin Nafi'a narrated that Muaawiyah Yaani ibn Salam narrated that Zaid narrated that he heard Abu Salam said that Abdallah bin Farookh narrated that he heard Aisha (the wife of the Prophet) say that the Prophet, peace be upon him, said that every man from the people of Adam (i.e., mankind) was created UNTO/UPON/ON 60 and 300 MIFSAL. So whoever glorifies Allah, praises Allah, calls people to Allah, makes supplications to Allah, seeks forgiveness from Allah, removes a stone, needle or bone from the people's path (i.e., removes obstacles from people's paths), and enjoins what is just and forbid what is wrong in the number of those 60 and 300 ALSALAMA, he will then on that day remove himself from Hell Fire.This Hadith (Saying of Prophet Muhammd) is a Mutawatir (genuine....among the very well known ones) one. This can be verified here: http://hadith.al-islam.com/Fhares/Fhares.asp?Doc=1&Tag=6&st=385&IMAGE.x=27&IMAGE.y=8 (see Hadith #395 on the list). Now reading the Arabic and English texts above, we clearly see the key words UNTO, UPON or ON (ala in Arabic). It turns out that the Prophet said:".....Allah Almighty created the son of Adam UPON (or on) 360 MIFSAL......"AND".....and whoever....<does a long list of good things>.....to the number of those 360 ALSALAMA, then he will walk that day having removed himself from Hell."
Only a handful of joints are noticeable in the body:
I find it vitually impossible to believe that the Prophet of Islam:1- Thought that the human body had 360 joints since the ones that are visible to us are only a handful (knees, elbows, knuckles, etc...), and medical technology back then did not exist.
2- Even addressed the human joints in this Narration!Prophet Muhammad's (peace be upon him) use of the word "ala" (upon or on) 360 mifsals seems to clearly speak about Divine Stages that Allah Almighty made that are perhaps standing between him and Heaven. Since the Hadith is speaking about Charity, good work, helping others, and clearing the roads for pedestrians, all for the cause of Allah Almighty, it seems quite clear to me that MIFSAL and ALSALAMA here are referring to a CHAIN OF STAGES that the person WOULD HAVE TO GO THROUGH before he/she reaches Allah Almighty! And those stages consist of many things, which several of them have to do with charity and all of the good things that are narrated in the Hadith.
There is no mention of human joints at all!!
There are some anti-Islamics who are pushing the false translation and theory about Prophet Muhammad claiming that the human body consists of 360 joints. With all sincerity and honesty, even if medicine tomorrow were to prove that humans do indeed have 360 joints in their bodies, I still would not think that the Hadith meant that, because the narration is clearly talking about the humans were created ON/UPON/UNTO 360 CHAINS OF STAGES that require them to do so much Praising of GOD Almighty (through words and prayers) and to do so much good to others and to give charity. That Hadith is clearly not talking about the details of the creation of man's body, but rather either metaphorically or literally stating the 360 Divine Stages that are standing between us and Heaven.
In other words, we are so sinful by nature that we have to always be aware of our sins and fight them!
That's what this Hadith is truly saying.
Have the Hadith truly said that humans were created with 360 joints in them, then the word ALA (ON/UPON/UNTO) would not have been used here. Instead, the words "maa'" (with) or "fi" (in....360 joints were created in the human body) would've been grammatically correct for this meaning. In fact, the Prophet's statement
"خلق كل إنسان من بني آدم على ستين وثلاث مائة مفصل"
خلق كل إنسان من بني آدم
ستين وثلاث مائة مفصل
And Allah Almighty Knows best.
Since I am not satisfied with "Allah knows best", and past history has not instilled any confidence in Osama Abdallah's wild claims, I asked my friend Bassam Khoury who was not only an Arabic language teacher but is also very knowledgable in the so-called science of hadith, what he thinks of Abdallah's new article. The following is his response.
One of the very amazing things about humans is the fact that they hardly ever admit that they were wrong.
It gets even harder when someone published a paper with a theory that is then proven to be wrong. Usually people start to backpedal, and then get themselves into even deeper problems.
Osama Abdallah, nick-named "the fool", is a prime example of such a person. A few years ago he published an article, Islam's claim about the 360 joints in the human body was proven to be true!, in which he used a phone directory as a scientific evidence to back up his claim. When he was exposed for being such a fool, he removed the article, but then he came back to his "scientific" vomit and said: "It is quite possible that somebody back then got a little bit too colorful and fabricated this false hadith on the tongue of the Prophet, peace be upon him."
That position got him in trouble with other Muslims for denying a hadith in Sahih Muslim.
Now he is back to his vomit one more time. This time around, he says: "This Hadith (Saying of Prophet Muhammd) is a Mutawatir (genuine....among the very well known ones) one".
Now we need to know, "fool", is this hadith a fabrication or is it mutawatir? Make up your mind!
At any rate the hadith might be <Sahih> (genuine) but it is by no means <Mutawatir> (unanimous).
A unanimous hadith is one that is narrated by many narrators in every link of its chain.
(أما المتواتر فهو: ما رواه عدد كثير تحيل العادة تواطؤهم على الكذب، ولابد من وجود هذه الكثرة في جميع الطبقات، وهذا النوع من الخبر مقبول كله، ولا حاجة إلى البحث عن رواته.)
The hadith Osama is quoting is <Ahad> and individualistic that is to say
it is not narrated by a large number of narrators.
(أما القسم الثاني وهو حديث الآحاد فهو: ما لم يجمع شروط المتواتر، وهو ينقسم من حيث عدد رواته.)
See this fatwa: http://www.islamweb.net/ver2/Fatwa/ShowFatwa.php?lang=A&Option=FatwaId&Id=11828
Maybe Osama need to go back and study Islam a little bit more before he writes Islamic apologetics?
In the current version of the fool's vomit, the hadith is now <Mutawatir> - or so we told - but apparently it doesn't mean what it says but it is talking about good works.
To get to this conclusion Osama makes this point: "Have the Hadith truly said that humans were created with 360 joints in them, then the word ALA (ON/UPON/UNTO) would not have been used here. Instead, the words "maa'" (with) or "fi" (in....360 joints were created in the human body) would've been grammatically correct for this meaning."
Even though the construction with "ala" is perfectly good grammar, and the standard translation renders the meaning correctly, there is no point in discussing the finer details of Arabic grammar with somebody who has not even mastered the beginnings. However, Osama gave us a criterion in his above statement: if the hadith had used the preposition "fi" (in), this would clearly convey the meaning which he himself originally propagated, and which is the general Muslim understanding of it, but which he now denies.
The problem with this statement is Osama's ignorance of Islamic hadith. If he knew anything about his own hadith collections he would have read the following:
Narrated Buraydah ibn al-Hasib: I heard the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) say: A human being has three hundred and sixty joints (Arabic: mefsal) for each of which he must give alms. The people asked him: Who is capable of doing this? He replied: It may be mucus in the mosque which you bury, and something which you remove from the road; but if you do not find such, two rak'ahs in the forenoon will be sufficient for you. (Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 41, Number 5222; emphasis ours)
Amazingly, Abdallah himself had quoted this hadith in his first article on the topic, here. But in the meantime he "forgot" about it. Here is the original Arabic text:
حَدَّثَنَا أَحْمَدُ بْنُ مُحَمَّدٍ الْمَرْوَزِيُّ قَالَ حَدَّثَنِي عَلِيُّ بْنُ حُسَيْنٍ قَالَ حَدَّثَنِي أَبِي قَالَ حَدَّثَنِي عَبْدُ اللَّهِ بْنُ بُرَيْدَةَ قَالَ سَمِعْتُ أَبِي بُرَيْدَةَ يَقُولُ سَمِعْتُ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ يَقُولُ فِي الْإِنْسَانِ ثَلَاثُ مِائَةٍ وَسِتُّونَ مَفْصِلًا فَعَلَيْهِ أَنْ يَتَصَدَّقَ عَنْ كُلِّ مَفْصِلٍ مِنْهُ بِصَدَقَةٍ قَالُوا وَمَنْ يُطِيقُ ذَلِكَ يَا نَبِيَّ اللَّهِ قَالَ النُّخَاعَةُ فِي الْمَسْجِدِ تَدْفِنُهَا وَالشَّيْءُ تُنَحِّيهِ عَنْ الطَّرِيقِ فَإِنْ لَمْ تَجِدْ فَرَكْعَتَا الضُّحَى تُجْزِئُكَ
The red part of the above Arabic text is transliterated: "fi al insane thlath maa'a wa setoun mifsalan", and its literal translation is "In the human being three hundred and sixty joints".
Moreover, this is not the only place this statement is narrated.
"In the human being three hundred and sixty joints" (3 / 79 / 1640 و 3 / 106 ) it is narrated in <Irwaa'> (2/213) form a narration collected by Ahmad and Tahawi and the specified hearing the hadith from Abdallah from his father Buraydah, and it’s the narration of Ibn Khwzaimah in his authentic collection (1226) (The authentic collection of Albani 6/413)
" في الإنسان ستون و ثلاثمائة مفصل .. " ( 3 / 79 / 1640 و 3 / 106 ) و هو مخرج في " الإرواء " ( 2 / 213 ) من رواية جمع منهم أحمد و الطحاوي و صرحا فيه بسماع عبد الله من أبيه بريدة و هي رواية ابن خزيمة في " صحيحه " ( 1226 ) .
(السلسلة الصحيحة للألباني 6/413)
This hadith is narrated by two different chains, and therefore this statement is even more authentic than the one Osama selected for his misinterpretation.
Will the fool now backpedal once more, or would he say: "There are some anti-Islamics who are pushing the false translation and theory about Prophet Muhammad, claiming that the human body consists of 360 joints." Would he then add Abu Dawud and Albani to the list of Anti-Islamics?
Another observation of the fool's folly is what Osama said in his article: "In other words, we are so sinful by nature that we have to always be aware of our sins and to fight them!"
Has Osama now accepted the Christian doctrine of "original sin"? With this statement he goes against his own religion in order to support his (mis)interpretation of the 360 joints hadith. He tells us that humans are sinful by nature (the Arabic for this would be Tabia'a or Fitrah) but this goes against Islamic teaching which claims that every human being is born pure and sinless and he is only brought up against his nature by his parents:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle said, "Every child is born with a true faith of Islam (i.e. to worship none but Allah Alone) but his parents convert him to Judaism, Christianity or Magainism, as an animal delivers a perfect baby animal. Do you find it mutilated?" Then Abu Huraira recited the holy verses: "The pure Allah's Islamic nature (true faith of Islam) (i.e. worshipping none but Allah) with which He has created human beings. No change let there be in the religion of Allah (i.e. joining none in worship with Allah). That is the straight religion (Islam) but most of men know, not." (30.30) (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 23, Number 441)
"مَا مِنْ مَوْلُودٍ إِلَّا يُولَدُ عَلَى الْفِطْرَةِ فَأَبَوَاهُ يُهَوِّدَانِهِ أَوْ يُنَصِّرَانِهِ أَوْ يُمَجِّسَانِهِ" (متفق عليه).
I guess we have to thank Osama for proving to us that the writer of the Quran didn't knew what he is talking about when he said:
"Then set your face upright for religion in the right state -- the nature made by Allah in which He has made men; there is no altering of Allah's creation; that is the right religion, but most people do not know --" Roman 30:30 (Shakir)
One more time: Thanks, fool.
However, there is another shocker for Osama Abdallah. Let's have a second look at this section of his article:
Only a handful of joints are noticeable in the body:
I find it vitually impossible to believe that the Prophet of Islam:
1- Thought that the human body had 360 joints since the ones that are visible to us are only a handful (knees, elbows, knuckles, etc...), and medical technology back then did not exist.
2- Even addressed the human joints in this Narration!
Prophet Muhammad's (peace be upon him) use of the word "ala" (upon or on) 360 mifsals seems to clearly speak about Divine Stages that Allah Almighty made that are perhaps standing between him and Heaven. Since the Hadith is speaking about Charity, good work, helping others, and clearing the roads for pedestrians, all for the cause of Allah Almighty, it seems quite clear to me that MIFSAL and ALSALAMA here are referring to a CHAIN OF STAGES that the person WOULD HAVE TO GO THROUGH before he/she reaches Allah Almighty! And those stages consist of many things, which several of them have to do with charity and all of the good things that are narrated in the Hadith.
There is no mention of human joints at all!!
There are some anti-Islamics who are pushing the false translation and theory about Prophet Muhammad claiming that the human body consists of 360 joints. With all sincerity and honesty, even if medicine tomorrow were to prove that humans do indeed have 360 joints in their bodies, I still would not think that the Hadith meant that, ...
First, I had documented in my original rebuttal that we have Chinese and Buddhist sources that speak about 360 joints in the human body already more than 800 years before the time when Muhammad claimed prophethood, see the section "What is the Source of Muhammad's belief that the human body has 360 joints?" It is amazing how Abdallah is closing his mind to the evidence, and now claims that he cannot imagine how anyone at the time could get such an idea, and certainly not Muhammad.
Second, last week we found some Muslim pages that give a detailed list of the joints, counting them and arriving at the number 360! Have a look at this summary page (though that one is only making a more specific claim, it still provides no evidence). However, the same website also has an Arabic article providing this detailed listing of joints (the actual list is in English, starting about the middle of the page).
What is Osama Abdallah going to do now?
Will he switch sides again next week, retract everything he just published, and go back to his original claim, "Islam's claim about the 360 joints in the human body was proven to be true!"? Despite the fact that he just said, "I find it vitually impossible to believe ... With all sincerity and honesty, even if medicine tomorrow were to prove that humans do indeed have 360 joints in their bodies, I still would not think that the Hadith meant that"?
Will he simply breathe a deep sigh of relief, retract all his attacks on the hadith, and go back to his original belief that hadiths are generally reliable and contain plenty of scientific miracles that prove the divine origin of Islam?
Or will he dare to go against the Islamic establishment, use his own notes taken during his futile attempts of counting these joints, being unable to make them add up to 360, and debunk these two articles by showing where they counted incorrectly?
I am really looking forward to his next move!
The following announcements and articles that utterly contradict Abdallah's latest interpretation of the 360 joints hadith are currently still found on his website. They are displayed here for the sake of documentation as they will likely disappear when Abdallah reads this article and realizes his blunders.
06/17/2006- The dajjal responded to the 360 joints hadith in a hilarious way, and as usual ran away from confronting anti-Islamics! By the way, my rebuttal to his absurd 76-page article on me is coming up insha'Allah (if Allah Almighty is Willing).
06/16/2006- I just quickly want to update the site with this article Jalal Abul-Rub BEGGED ME to remove the articles on him, and he is now denying it. See the email exchanges that took place before everyone! Now the liar is saying that I am a Sunnah rejecter. Anyway, I read his pdf file on me, which I will debunk for him very shortly insha'Allah (if Allah Almighty is Willing), and it is filled with nothing but gibberish nonsense of his (I love how he strongly believes that some people memorized 100s of thousands of narrations without any error) and quotes from my old Quran-only beliefs that were long gone before I even encountered him. Obviously, repenting and changing don't mean anything to this dajjal.
I'd like to make this comment about his barking on the 360 joints FALSE hadith. Please do respond to that hadith! You said you were gonna do it later in your file. How about being a man and do it soon, since much of your barking about me being an infidel revolves around this point. Let us all see how this salafi dajjal (liar) will answer this error in the false hadith that was put on the mouth of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him. (Source, as accessed on 15 September 2006)
Note that Abdallah clearly claims here that the 360 joints hadith is a FALSE hadith, i.e. they are fabricated and certainly did not originate with Muhammad.
The first of the above linked articles starts with this section:
The dajjal responded to the 360 joints hadith in a hilarious way, and as usual ran away from confronting anti-Islamics!
Previously, I have challenged the dajjal (liar and rubbish talker), Jalal Abualrub (abul-arub, abualrub), to respond to the 360-human-joints hadith, since much of his "proofs" about me being an infidel revolve around this hadith! This is what he had to say about it when he was challenged by another Muslim to respond to it:
as-salamu alaikum warahmatullah
i agree with br. Omar... even though i truly dislike the deviant ideas of osama and his people, i am not for petitions because it is not a method i agree with... this man, osama, reposted his attacks on the sunnah because of this petition claiming that i am behind it, when i have no idea what it is even... i do not do petitions because they usually do nothing and because i know that the best way to refute ignorance is with knowledge... so while i appreciate what tareq is trying to do, may allah bless him, i think that you all should try and help establish this website as a response to all types of kufr and deviantion whether coming from 'muslims' or non-muslims... as for the hadeeth about joints, why don't you tareq make a research and send it to me and i will help you answer this challenge to muhammad, salla allahu alaihi wa-sallam, by osama, who defends queers and says that satan will end up in paradise with adam and eve, nuh, ibrahim, musa and esa... i cannot possibly answer every challenge by idiots to the sunnah, i have other things to do which are more urgent and pressing... also, since i started answring attacks on islam, i wrote hundereds of pages of knowledge and evidence, and hopefully tarq and other brothers and sisters may take the time and read them so that the benefit is shared and may be they are helped to write their own responses inshaallah in the same or even better manner than mine... i have been bombarded by negative, abusive emails from friends of osama who, as the cowards they are, also try to spam this website by registering under fake names and posting abusive articles or comments as their tool of intimidation... what they post is just abuse but no response to the core issues i touched in my rebuttals on osama and his views... they cannot intimidate me: they have no idea how i love to challenge the enemies of the sunnah... osama and his people do not represent islam and we should let the word get out to everyone, including those who do not seem to care that osama accuses the prophet of lying, i.e. because according to osama the prophet thought he was being revealed to while all he had is inner good feeling (I have already repented from my Quran-only beliefs and actually wrote an article on the Sunset Hadith.......Osama Abdallah), because these people calim that osama attacks the bible; what kind of nonsense is this? i ask these people, who should elevate their love for muhammad, if this is the religion that want to be a part of, or the religion that pleases allah...
as-salamu alaikum warahmatullah
Such cowardliness and hypocrisy can not be any clearer! This blasphemous dajjal declares me as an infidel for rejecting the false and isolated (it doesn't have much authentic support by its narrators) hadith that says that the human body consists of 360 joints while medicine disproved that, and when he was asked/challenged to address it, he said that it is an attack by idiots on the Sunnah, asked another brother to do his homework for him, and that I, Osama Abdallah, am a homosexuals defender (see his lie exposed in these email exchanges).
Is this the smoking-gun proof that this gay has against me, who begged me in the past before everyone to remove my expositions on his backbiting to Nadir Ahmed (see the ample email exchanges exposing him), another one of his salafi skunks?
See also: 19 email conversations proving Jalal Abdul-Rub's LIES and backbiting to even his own friends!
Note: Gay here doesn't mean homosexual. It rather means a too soft and girly man.
And since the dajjal himself recognized that the hadiths that allow muta (temporary marriage) from the SAHIH VOLUMES are false hadiths, then why can't the hadith on the 360 joints also be false? Here is what he himself wrote about the pro muta hadiths:
"Osama tries to confuse the authentic Hadeeths with false Hadeeths, rejecting the former because the latter contains falsehood. He wants Muslims to abandon the Prophet s explanation on his own Quran and instead adopt Osama s deranged explanation on it." (Source)
By the way, muta is forbidden in the Noble Quran as well as in the Mutawatir (genuine) Hadiths. See our proofs from the Noble Quran Itself about muta being forbidden.
The hadith on the 360 joints is not a Mutawatir one. (Source, as accessed on 15 September 2006)
Note again, Abdallah states that this hadith is (1) false, (2) isolated, and (3) not mutawatir.
The next two quotations from Abdallah's "What's new on Answering Christianity" page (*) are merely for chuckles:
09/18/2005- ... I also added new notes to the former removed article The human body has 360 joints in it. ...
11/04/2004- ... I also added more notes to the two removed articles: "Adam 90 feet tall", and "360 joints in human body". ...
What is the point to add more notes to articles that are removed? Who can see these notes? He meant to say: I added more notes to the pages that have now replaced those removed articles. Also, "I added new notes to the former removed article" says that the article is no longer removed. It was formerly removed, but has now been put back again. That is not what he wanted to say either. Anyway, though it is worth a grin, it has no consequences for the content of this discussion.
For a long time, the two pages replacing his articles on the 360 joints in the human body respectively the one on the 90 feet tall Adam were looking almost identical. To see an approximation of how the 360 joints hadith article looked shortly before Abdallah's recent turn around, one only has to visit the still current version of the 90 feet tall Adam article. It still is a scathing condemnation for the hadith. The relevant part of the replacement page of this article is displayed here:
Since I could not further prove the information in this article, I therefore decided to remove it:
1- In this "Adam is 90 feet" article, the brother who sent me the article had put all of the references and quotes from Hebrew University's Professor's Research. But unfortunately, since this was a quote outside the Noble Quran, Bible and Hadiths, I could not easily verify it, and I know that he doesn't live in Israel or Palestine. I therefore removed the article and I am not planning on adding it back, even if the information was proven to be true, because as further elaborated on in point #2 below, the Hadiths are like the Bible; they had been proven themselves to be filled with man's alterations and fabricated lies.
2- I made a grave mistake in treating the Hadiths (collection of Prophet Muhammad's Sayings) as authentic and Divine as the Noble Quran. The Hadiths are like the Bible, they both contain man made alterations and fabricated lies as well as Truth in them.
Please visit: What parts of the Bible and Hadiths do Muslims believe are closest to the Truth, and why?
The Bible's own theologians admit that the ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPTS had been LOST! (Read the last section in the link)
The Bible's own theologians admit that the authors of the gospels and books of today's bible are UNKNOWN.
The Noble Quran on the other hand is Perfect and Divine. Its Prophecies and Miracles had been proven time and time again to be Divine and Truthful.
*** What I finally realized is that the verses in the Bible and Hadiths are false until proven otherwise! Unlike the Noble Quran, where is it ALWAYS correct and Truthful.
3- Could not verify the authenticity of the Hadiths (Sayings of Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him), because many hadiths are weak/doubtful. The hadiths I provided were unfortunately isolated (each narrated only once). Generally, the hadiths narrated by many people have stronger validity than isolated ones. Again, please visit: What parts of the Bible and Hadiths do Muslims believe are closest to the Truth, and why?
4- I visited Hebrew University's official web site on the internet and had no luck in getting any number. I also couldn't understand the Hebrew in it, since most of its contents (even in the English page) were written in Hebrew. I tried calling it using the "International Directory", and all they had was a fax machine's number.
Other Important Reasons:
While I openly admitted and still admit that I was wrong in not posting a warning message on the top of the article, telling the reader that this article requires further investigation, but I assumed that it was pretty much self-explanatory and that my readers did understand my intentions because I got used to so many contributions to my site's articles.
The reason why I removed this article was not because Jochen Katz exposed me as he so hopelessly convinced himself to have accomplished, but rather because I finally came to the conclusion after so many debates on my previous message board right in front of Jochen Katz' eyes (since he was a participant on my board) that the Hadiths (the collections of Prophet Muhammad's Sayings) are like the Bible; they are filled with man's corruption.
I decided then to never rely solely on them to prove anything scientific, because their sources and authenticity are doubtful (just like the Bible). I decided to only rely on the Noble Quran, and use any Hadith that directly agrees with our Holy Book.
To the reader, please visit: What parts of the Bible and Hadiths do Muslims believe are closest to the Truth, and Why?
Also: The NIV Bible's theologians and historians admit that most of the Bible's "Books" and "Gospels" are doubtful! Their authors, dates and places of documentation are UNKNOWN.
I don't know about Jochen Katz, but I know that his readers and mine are both intelligent people. No one comes to our sites without having the desire to do some serious research. Our sites' topics are 100% into theology. Theology researchers on the internet are in general not "stupid" people. They are very smart and many of them are open-minded too. In other words, they could not be hoaxed up by partial articles.
Again, In this "Adam is 90 feet" article, the brother who sent me the article had put all of the references and quotes from Hebrew University's Professor's Research. But unfortunately, since this was a quote outside the Noble Quran, Bible and Hadiths, I could not easily verify it, and I know that he doesn't live in Israel or Palestine. I therefore removed the article and I am not planning on adding it back, even if the information was proven to be true, because
The Hadiths like I said above were proven to contain corruptions and man-alterations in them JUST LIKE THE BIBLE. They're Truth is not Absolute and Perfect like the Noble Quran's.
Apart from his still displayed attacks on the hadith in this replacement article, what is most amazing here is that he still denies that the 90 feet Adam article was a hoax. And that despite the fact that the person who had put it together has told him so!
It is rather comical to see Abdallah even claiming (in the third paragraph from the bottom in the above displayed part): "They are very smart and many of them are open-minded too. In other words, they could not be hoaxed up by partial articles."
Since Abdallah was clearly "hoaxed up" on this story, would we not be justified to conclude — based on his own statement — that he is not "open-minded" and certainly not "very smart"?
1. This article was finalized on 15 September 2006. The reason that it was uploaded only three days later is that we were still working on several other rebuttals which we wanted to go online on the same day. However, in the meantime, Osama Abdallah found or was informed about those pages as well. On 17 September he added this paragraph to his article:
Medical evidence about the 360 joints:
Despite the fact that there is scientific evidence demonstrating that the human body does indeed have 360 joints in it  , but I still don't think that Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, said or meant to say that the human body consists of 360 joints as I clearly demonstrated in the sub-section above and in the one below as well. But nonetheless, I felt that it was nice to show that there seems to be scientific proofs about the human body consisting of 360 joints.
Although he is not giving up his new interpretation so quickly, note the first sentence in which he describes those pages: "Despite the fact that there is scientific evidence demonstrating that the human body does indeed have 360 joints in it ..." He is all too quick to believe. He has learned next to nothing from his earlier desaster. In his original article he had also linked to two Islamic pages claiming that there are 360 joints, and called that scientific evidence. Here we read:
The Scientific Fact:
The joint is a point of articulation of two bones, a bone and gristle, or two gristles in any part of the human body.
The total number of joints, according to scientists, is:
1- Skull joints: 86
2- Throat joints: 6
3- Thorax joints: 66
4- Spine and Pelvis joints: 76
5- Upper limbs: 32 x 2 = 64
6- Lower limbs: 31 x 2= 62
Total number of joints: 360 (Source)
Seriously, Abdallah, is this evidence or is this a claim? The page says: "according to scientists". Is such a claim still sufficient for you? They claim, therefore I believe? Have you not been burned badly enough on this issue? Do you not feel the need to ask: Which scientists? Where are the bibliographical references to objective medical textbooks, encyclopedias and/or scientific articles in medical journals that confirm those numbers?
I agree that the detailed list given on the Arabic page looks truly impressive, but the same question has to be asked: Does this page provide any bibliographical references to scientific literature? Or is even this list merely a claim (although a very elaborate and detailed claim), and the authors are simply trusting that the readers will be so impressed that nobody is going to check whether they actually counted correctly? And, as already pointed out in our first article on the topic, the most important question is the definition of what constitutes a joint. What is their definition?
After you have invested weeks upon weeks with the attempt to count joints, how likely do you consider it that these numbers are true? Have you even pulled out your notes and did you do any comparison of your numbers with their numbers?
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